Format shifting? -

larkim

27 Feb 2012, 12:37 PM | Post: #1

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Format shifting?

This has been done to death in the music world, but it seems that in the end the music publishers accept that if you bought the CD it isn't entirely unreasonable that you can also rip that CD into MP3s to play on your [generic mp3 player]. One step beyond that is to own the CD (in a box in the loft) and download someone else's MP3s of the same tracks for your own use. Not sure that the record industry (or lawyers!) would agree 100% that that is appropriate, but for me personally that would give me no moral dilemmas.

How does this transfer to ebooks? Over the years I've got quite a lot of books, and some of them I might want to read again. But I'm now a Kindle addict!

I know without a doubt that I could (if I wanted to) find downloadable copies of the same books with no cost to myself.

Question is, should I?

If we put aside the effort required to convert an existing paper book into an ebook format (and presume also that any copies of books that I download specifically aren't drm-hacked versions, so nobody has done any illegal computering!), I think that it should be morally acceptable for me to download such copies. Clearly the publishers don't agree (otherwise they would let me do it some way - e.g. walk into Waterstones with your paper book, scan the ISBN number and a download is sent to your ebook reader), but do you?

Interested in your thoughts!

Matt

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NJM Reading Advances in Digital Camera Technology by Phil Donald

27 Feb 2012, 07:06 PM | Post: #2

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RE: Format shifting?

I have a hard copy version of "Why Does E=MC2" by Brian Cox and it is too mind numbing to read all at once or get off the shelf for a few minutes of spare time, so I had no problems at all buying the kindle version so that I could dip in and out when time permitted etc.

I can't agree that all kindle books that are owned as paper copies should be freebie downloads. There are numerous reasons why some people want a hard or soft paper version and or the kindle version. Some want both some are either / or, but whatever the choice is I don't think that the people who produce kindle books do it to appease the readers who have a book then buy a kindle e-reader and expect it for nothing - life's not like that!!

The analogy with music isn't quite the same. You just couldn't get a paper book onto a kindle like you can a CD to computer, so you have to get it as a separate entity.

A better analogy would be if I owned Monopoly as a board game I wouldn't expect the software version to be free to me just because I have bought the game earlier.

Interesting topic though

Nigel

A midget psychic escapes from jail....Headlines: Small Medium at Large

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larkim

28 Feb 2012, 10:16 AM | Post: #3

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RE: Format shifting?

I do agree about the practical differences between getting all 400 pages of a book into a digital format vs the simplicity of "ripping" a CD into MP3 format for transferring onto your iPod etc. But copyright law relates to the intellectual property in the work itself, and doesn't consider those sorts of practicalities. So if it is legal to format shift in one medium, why not format shift in another?

I don't have a problem with buying both versions. But I've got a few hundred books acquired over a long period of time which I might want to re-read; I would have a financial problem with shelling out a few hundred quid on copies of those books from Amazon. And that's before considering books which I own but which aren't currently available through Amazon.

I'm not sure that the Monopoly example is a better analogy - playing Monopoly on the computer would give you a different product, with some pros and cons. But reading a book is reading a book, whether or not it is on an eReader.

Still interested in others' opinions though!

Matt

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NJM Reading Advances in Digital Camera Technology by Phil Donald

28 Feb 2012, 05:30 PM | Post: #4

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RE: Format shifting?

I think most people sort of drew a line when they got their kindle. The pre bought books were just that - already bought and most probably read.

Then, after acquiring the kindle, all subsequently books were bought as e-books so avoiding the dilemma of having to buy twice. There are of course exceptions to this such as when a book is either not available on kindle or just one of those beautiful pieces of art almost, that look good on the shelf!!

Be interesting to see what others think - if the interest is there!

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larkim

01 Mar 2012, 03:21 PM | Post: #5

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RE: Format shifting?

(28 Feb 2012 05:30 PM)NJM Wrote: Be interesting to see what others think - if the interest is there!

Apparently not!

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temu

11 Mar 2012, 12:11 PM | Post: #6

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RE: Format shifting?

A lot of my printed books come from charity shops. As far as I am aware no one has tried to ban these shops from selling books even though the author, publisher etc doesn't receive an income from them. The only time they make money is on the original purchase. When I have finished them I take them back to a charity shop or swap them with friends who then pass them on to another charity shop. And so it goes in a constant circle. So how different an issue is this? Where do we draw the line?

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larkim

12 Jul 2012, 01:58 PM | Post: #7

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RE: Format shifting?

I was thinking about this thread just last night when the issue came to me again. I bought The Hunger Games trilogy for my son to read recently in softback, from Amazon. He's finished it, and has passed them on to me. The book has been sat by my bed for a few weeks now, and I can't bring myself to pick it up to read it simply because of the format that it is in - I've got so used to the convenience of reading via the Kindle at home, out and about, and using the cloud reader on my work PC at lunch time that I don't want to go back to the frustration of reading the paperback.

So I'm sorely tempted to find a copy on t'interweb, but haven't done yet.

I'm posting this as the scenario is now slightly different - instead of re-reading a book I've purchased pre-kindle, I'm now thinking about a book I've not read but which I have purchased in the "wrong" format for me. Just the same as buying a CD and then ripping it onto my mp3 player (but without the ability to actually do the "ripping" itself).

Anyone new care to debate this?!

Cheers!

Matt

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J.S.Egan Reading

12 Jul 2012, 02:22 PM | Post: #8

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RE: Format shifting?

(12 Jul 2012 01:58 PM)larkim Wrote: Just the same as buying a CD and then ripping it onto my mp3 player

Which is technically illegal too in the UK. (Though I'm pretty sure no one has been prosecuted.)

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larkim

12 Jul 2012, 02:38 PM | Post: #9

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RE: Format shifting?

Fair point, but a moot one - if something is illegal, but the practice is that no-one is ever prosecuted for it, then the illegality is irrelevant.

Plus, the govt has announced that it intends to make format shifting legal (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14372698) for personal use, so whilst that is yet to be achieved in law I think there would be widespread acceptance that for all practical purposes you could say that format shifting is not something which will put you on the wrong side of the law in the UK at the moment.

Matt

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J.S.Egan Reading

12 Jul 2012, 02:51 PM | Post: #10

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RE: Format shifting?

Has anyone tried format-shifting a book?

I have discussed the possibility of doing it for my sister's PHD thesis, which is stuck in hardback (the original floppy-disks are dead), but she would like to digitize. Main negative is that it would be destructive - we would have to saw the binding off (it is about 1 inch thick) and then feed it into an ocr scanner. (We don't think it could be done without removing the binding, 'cos it won't like anything-like flat, so the ocr would fail.)

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