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The Joys of Brexit

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Offline cecilia_writer Reading Murder by the Glass by Lynda Wilcox
22 Jul 2016, 09:29 AM | Post: #21

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RE: The Joys of Brexit

I think direct democracy would only work well with a much better educated (or perhaps much smaller) population than we have in the UK. Wasn't this kind of democracy invented in one of the Greek city-states? It's probably most suitable for a place of that sort of size.

However the UK form of representative democracy is certainly well overdue for modernisation so that it actually becomes more representative and we don't need to resort to a referendum to try and find out what people's views are. I think we should be looking at regional assemblies modelled on the Scottish Parliament, plus a UK senate or similar, to which the component regions/'countries' of the UK send equal numbers of senators as in the US senate. We have both separate constituencies and regional lists for the Scottish Parliament and that seems to produce a better balanced result than the first past the post system. So even though we still have an SNP government here they don't have an overwhelming majority of MSPs. Also the MSPs are usually based locally and not so often parachuted into random places. Although until recently it was mainly the Lib Dems who had more of a local base in my particular area than any of the others.

Anyway, I've veered off topic a bit, and I still think Brexit will be a complete and utter disaster, in ways which many people haven't even thought of yet, but which many people warned about before the referendum. For instance, research funding may seem like a very specialised area which has nothing to do with ordinary people's lives, until you realise this could include medical and related research that could impact on the sacred NHS. In my older son's university department 40% of the funding has come from the EU. He says universities elsewhere are now already starting to be reluctant to include UK universities in collaborative projects. There's an article in the Guardian this morning questioning the resourcing of major public projects when civil servants, already over-stretched in many cases, are having to deal with Brexit issues..

Sorry to go on and on.
Daphne, thanks for reading my blog - am in a slight panic now because I wasn't really expecting anyone to read my rants!
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Offline Rosen Trevithick Reading
22 Jul 2016, 04:34 PM | Post: #22

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RE: The Joys of Brexit

Walk away from the Brexit thread, Rosen. Walk away.
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Offline Stu Ayris Reading All The Pretty Horses by Cormac McCarthy
22 Jul 2016, 05:27 PM | Post: #23

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RE: The Joys of Brexit

(22 Jul 2016 09:29 AM)cecilia_writer Wrote: Wrote:  I think direct democracy would only work well with a much better educated (or perhaps much smaller) population than we have in the UK. Wasn't this kind of democracy invented in one of the Greek city-states? It's probably most suitable for a place of that sort of size.

However the UK form of representative democracy is certainly well overdue for modernisation so that it actually becomes more representative and we don't need to resort to a referendum to try and find out what people's views are. I think we should be looking at regional assemblies modelled on the Scottish Parliament, plus a UK senate or similar, to which the component regions/'countries' of the UK send equal numbers of senators as in the US senate.  We have both separate constituencies and regional lists for the Scottish Parliament and that seems to produce a better balanced result than the first past the post system. So even though we still have an SNP government here they don't have an overwhelming majority of MSPs. Also the MSPs are usually based locally and not so often parachuted into random places. Although until recently it was mainly the Lib Dems who had more of a local base in my particular area than any of the others.

Anyway, I've veered off topic a bit, and I still think Brexit will be a complete and utter disaster, in ways which many people haven't even thought of yet, but which many people warned about before the referendum. For instance, research funding may seem like a very specialised area which has nothing to do with ordinary people's lives, until you realise this could include medical and related research that could impact on the sacred NHS. In my older son's university department 40% of the funding has come from the EU. He says universities elsewhere are now already starting to be reluctant to include UK universities in collaborative projects. There's an article in the Guardian this morning questioning the resourcing of major public projects when civil servants, already over-stretched in many cases, are having to deal with Brexit issues..

Sorry to go on and on.
Daphne, thanks for reading my blog - am in a slight panic now because I wasn't really expecting anyone to read my rants!
Thank you for putting so succinctly what I think!
Offline cecilia_writer Reading Murder by the Glass by Lynda Wilcox
23 Jul 2016, 03:05 PM | Post: #24

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RE: The Joys of Brexit

Thanks Stu - I still haven't quite got my head round it so it's good to know I'm making sense to somebody!
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Offline George Hamilton
24 Jul 2016, 09:04 AM | Post: #25

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RE: The Joys of Brexit

(22 Jul 2016 04:34 PM)Rosen Trevithick Wrote: Wrote:  Walk away from the Brexit thread, Rosen. Walk away.
Now you've got me intrigued.
Offline Ken Magee Reading Leaving Berlin by Joseph Kanon
24 Jul 2016, 12:38 PM | Post: #26

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RE: The Joys of Brexit

I agree with the comment that the political elite (or the chumocracy as I've heard it called) will probably find a way to make sure Brexit does NOT mean Brexit.

I think those who voted leave did so for a wide range of reasons; control, the economy, immigration global trade, deregulation, to name but a few. There is such a diversity of opinion within this group that no Brexit deal will satisfy everyone, possibly not even the majority of Leavers. This will make it easy for the Stayers to scupper progress towards the EU door.

And now, it seems diplomats are considering offering the UK an emergency brake on immigration while still having access to the single market. Why oh why could that not have been offered to Cameron during his failed renegotiation?

We have collectively got ourselves into a mess. The referendum was a bad idea and the inflexibility of the EU exacerbated the problem. My hope is that politicians and diplomats from all parts of Europe can get involved in grown up, non-dogmatic negotiations which will end up with a new relationship between the UK and the EU… regardless of whether we are in or out.
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Offline tao
24 Jul 2016, 07:12 PM | Post: #27

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RE: The Joys of Brexit

(24 Jul 2016 12:38 PM)Ken Magee Wrote: Wrote:  I agree with the comment that the political elite (or the chumocracy as I've heard it called) will probably find a way to make sure Brexit does NOT mean Brexit.

I think those who voted leave did so for a wide range of reasons; control, the economy, immigration global trade, deregulation, to name but a few. There is such a diversity of opinion within this group that no Brexit deal will satisfy everyone, possibly not even the majority of Leavers. This will make it easy for the Stayers to scupper progress towards the EU door.

And now, it seems diplomats are considering offering the UK an emergency brake on immigration while still having access to the single market. Why oh why could that not have been offered to Cameron during his failed renegotiation?

We have collectively got ourselves into a mess. The referendum was a bad idea and the inflexibility of the EU exacerbated the problem. My hope is that politicians and diplomats from all parts of Europe can get involved in grown up, non-dogmatic negotiations which will end up with a new relationship between the UK and the EU… regardless of whether we are in or out.
I've a strong feeling Ken that once the trigger is squeezed to get article 50 running then I would expect all sorts of goodies will be offered in the forlorn hope that we here in the UK will stay within the club. Within that time it is very likely that we shall see the Italian banking system go bankrupt in the same way that happened in Greece although this time it will affect the whole of the EU and especially the German banks who hold a vast amount of credit from both those countries. The Euro will collapse and countries will revert to their respective currencies in order to survive. The EU do not want us to leave because they know what is about to occur and need us to help support them through, although it will not in the med/long term help in any way. Don't you think it strange that during the campaigning absolutely nothing was mentioned of those countries within the EU struggling with huge unemployment, failing banking systems and terrible austerity measures that are in place and much more severe than we have here. There is no sign of much help being given to the Greeks who are suffering terribly and are likely to suffer 
for many years to come. Think also about the £7Bn we lent to Ireland to help them through when they were faced with debt problems... Strange how neither the EU or the IMF didn't offer to help at the time, reason being of course Ireland is of no consequence in the grand scheme of things that the EU seek which is of course a fully integrated and United States of Europe...
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Offline tao
25 Jul 2016, 05:51 AM | Post: #28

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